287 replies to this topic

[BladHark]

I was just checking if u were trolling or not, guess u werent as ure getting all defensive, dont worry

Edited by BladHark, 10 June 2012 - 02:01 PM.

[SyLt]

thnx dark for stopping it

[prime]

FUCK YOU STEVEN PIECE OF SHIT

[luminoKo]

You can keep riding my dick all you want, the point I am making is that the statement was ironic considering he would never leave c4 to make competition better the same way he refused to join 3v to make competition better. It'd be better if he just lied and said, "I don't want to join 3v because my friends are in c4".

Too bad you're blind to see how it works nowadays, even after Exe's story which was nicely written, I'll explain it one more time for you.

First of all, let's involve the Facing Worlds III in this.

Match results don't lie, and everybody says the line-up you use is no excuse for what the score will be.
In that case, let's check it out:

R-C vs c4. was 14-15.
Proof: http://www.demobase....4442-c4-vs-r-c/

Now nVm vs c4.
We have way more experience than nVm, let's check the result:

nVm vs c4. was 14-13
Proof: http://www.demobase....4-vs-nvm-final/

This was the most recent Cup.
So what can we conclude?
That there is competition now, nVm is at the moment the deserved clan to be called the best clan.
Check how close R-C was, only one point difference.
You guys were actually good, it really surprises me you and Abu think we are gods or something meanwhile we have still a hard time playing demo.
It is nice that there is a clan that can beat us.
Of course we won many Cups with c4., but that was my personal goal as well, seems logical.
If we would rape every clan with a big score than the story would be different, I would have probably left c4. in that case since if would be too boring.
They are my friends, but they also know that it must be fun to play the game.
And we all got different teams, my friends in c4. take me as a person who I am and even if I would leave c4. (which currently is not necessary if you check the competition) we would still be good friends.
Anyway the Cups we have won were good to play, not boring as well.
Maybe on goldmaps we have more experience, so in these matches we raped many clans yes I admit that.
But nowadays there is no way we would win a final against a decent line-up with 20 to 3 or something.

So this was my first point, hope you understand it now, there is a lot of competition left in demo, so there is nothing wrong with c4. here.

My second point, back to history.
When Hokie asked me I refused it yes, since 3v. was like at it's strongest point back then just like Exe said.
I didn't lie at all, because I nearly knew the players in c4. back then.
Of course I could have joined and there would be a clan later that would bring the competition as well.
I think if I would have joined 3v., c4. would still be as good, they were all talented players back then.
But the timemachine isn't there yet, so we never know.
3v. and c4. were mostly equal to eachother back then, I can remember 3v. raped us several times but we became better as well.
So I felt I made the right decission since that's something you hope for, winning or losing with one/two points so the battles are nice.
For me it was the right decission, you can call it whatever you want but I don't really care it that much, just wanted to express myself how it was back then.
I have a lot of respect for 3v. and the matches we have played, just wanted to finish with that.

[snugg]

yeah well this is an oldschool topic (so i don't see why renegade included himself in 3v) but he did a decent job picking out the original members, and acer if he included every member thats ever been in the list would literally be 75-100 people cause hokie loved to try out unknowns and develop them into overnight allstars (phaze, gandhi, myself) and before active, junior, dr funk, every other sexually frustrated hater has to say something like "you still suck" save it, I've been one of the best in this game with a 150 ping for 6 years now and theres only half a dozen people on the planet who are able to out aim me on sof2 when I have a low ping (rebel,wazd,flow,knuck,yang,usp from >>tacp:: )


I'd love to take a trip to amsterdam to try the bud and see where I stack up against reflex, snugg, zippa, zio, sylt, cam when we have an even ping because on gold i glitch boxes and corners better than bornova, they call me a camper for whoring my 40 ping but they don't deny no one else's aim is as annoying to play against.

For the one known story of how hok stole Snugg from OG, there's a hundred other sneaky stunts he pulled that nobody has heard. He knew how to get what he wanted from people, how to trick them into using them for his advantage or entertainment. Hell he fuckin had defqon bake a cake with "3v pwnz" on it in icing so that he could wear the tags. He convinced a full server that there was this secret wind behind cargo that would blow people back up onto the roof if they jumped at just the right spot, and laughed his ass off while we all fell to our death while him and prod noclipped smoothly back onto the ledge. He let Robban in so that he would help doc make us a movie, he let warren join just so he could use his server, C1 in so that all the actually good polacks would follow (darkness, windows, shivus). He lured in lauri strictly so that staff would join, but latikas, kapu, soul, and broken came as part of the package. He let sika stay in even tho he sucked and added all the avelgem kids(prixx, kkj, phaze) cause it kept snugg from leaving. He tricked ush into thinking he was his best friend even tho he fucking hated the guy, just so he could seduce the sickest aimers from sK into 3v.

At our peak, Lumi was literally the only player left in the game that hok wanted but didn't have, and pep said the only reason he wouldn't join was because we were too stacked already, and he didn't want to kill the competition on sof2. We already had staff, priest, borno, snugg, sylt, xillax, darkness, aytuo, murdoc, lauri, kapu, zioni, ush, free, varmir and pep felt it was unfair, he had to help some clan that I can't remember. Besides Bruce was already in and I'm sure pep just played under his name whenever we needed one, like I did in Haze and RZ for many years (funny how ryan would magically pick up a sniper for the first time in a cupwar and went 14/2) Likewise, there's been times that c4 has been untouchable when they have their best 5 (ref, indo, cam, skok, xillax/lumi) and as someone said .|E was the best in this game at one point, between both clans and teams.

and azzy PONY might have been undefeated but there definitely was some cheaters in it, I'm not saying that they still wouldn't have been the best of their time if they played clean but the wouldn't have won EVERY war the way they did. Besides, they only played 40 wars so that streak wasn't that impressive. During 3v's peak ~2006, hokie had mastered manipulating the elite players in this game by chatting casually about life and discreetly feeding their egos enough that they want to join, 3v won something close to 50 wars without losing one. People didn't understand that hokie was playing chess while everyone else was playing checkers, because hok didn't show his true side to many people. He looked at sof2 like a player, he'd be an asshole to all those that didn't matter and friendly towards the few attractive targets he wanted to fuck, or recruit. I was one of maybe 5 people (abu, yosh, snugg, doc) who actually knew how much of a fucking tactical genius this guy was, not just with understanding how his opponents played and adapting to it but also how amazing he was at manipulating people. (we had specific strategies for each clan, She tact of 2 cargo 1 west 2 pat became famous

Seych say they'll try in the cupwar, they tried but it was still 20-5. No disrespect to she i think they're a great clan and I don't mean to stir shit up with them, I just stumbled across this screenshot and it made me laugh. If you notice hokie saying "n1 zippa" its 110% because he wants zip to feel like he had no help from his teammates so hopefully he'll leave his finnish friends for 3v

This is an interesting post with a lot of valid points. Even though it's a pretty extended review of what was so special about Hokie, and while it certainly does justice to this legend, it still kind of misses a certain aspect.

He had the exceptional ability to make players WANT to play FOR him, to get the maximum, 100%, out of a sof2 player. Anyone who was regularly playing for us, back in the day, can confirm that in every war, he made it feel like you were part of something bigger, some sort of a larger unified movement on a mission that NEEDED to be fulfilled, facing an opponent that HAD to get raped. Every time. I know that I'm certainly not the only guy who played the most and who played the best while he was in 3v. This is mainly why.

Result of this mechanism was a constant, common psychological pattern that would appear repeatedly among every member. The pattern I'm pointing at is simple: the spontaneous realisation that his presence was the only criticial condition under which this special work-and-fun atmosphere, bathing in team spirit, was created. This meant that we were not half as interested in playing when he wasn't there, and we would play at about 30% of our capabilities. The vast majority of us also frequently expressed this to each other, mostly under the commonly used phrase by then: "sucks without hokie".

His characterising trait of manipulating people was not unlike the fictional character, House M.D., as farfetched as this may sound. Exe and the others from then know what I mean. After manipulating a player he had his eye on, to join 3v -using the various methods that Exe describes above-, he would figure out what exactly it was that motivated or DROVE a person to play SOF2 in general. As we all know, our motivations vary hugely: Some guys are all fun, they take a cupwar final as serious as a mixwar, as long as they can have some fun it's fine: they do NOT care about losing (i think varmir/abu were prime examples of this). Other guys in 3v were all seriousness, disapproving of any behaviour in the clan that was irrelevant to being the best clan on sof, nervousness would be a usual sign for a (cup)war for these guys (although this is a pretty extreme description, I think i could take myself as an example for this).

Quick and smooth as he was in determining what drove each of us individually, he applied this knowledge constantly in every war. He was the guy that could make Abu get nervous for a mixwar and make me NOT give a flying fuck about a cupwar. Hokie's knowledge that guided him to calming players like me down in crucial situations, and to getting people like Abu and Varmir to start playing serious in crucial situations, was pretty much instinct to him. He was born with this ability, kind of like animals know what kind of plants can heal them when they are ill. Exactly how he achieved this, whenever he would want, is still largely a mystery to me. I haven't seen any other person on the game being able to influence those around him like this.

Like Exe mentioned, I suspect that part of it was taking a (genuine) interest in two types of people: the people in his clan and the people HE WANTED to get in his clan. I believe that the more loyal someone was to Hokie (or to 3v, these two terms pretty much meant the same back then), the more genuine, the more real his interest was in you as an individual. This, would then again ensure your loyalty to his system. Bottom line is that once a new member accepted Hokie, and Hokie accepted the new member as valuable asset in the team, there would be no chance of that new member leaving 3v any time soon.

This guy was a true born leader who was so good at what he set out to do. Something I've barely ever witnessed before and since then. Some of you might think it's sad to see a guy that was after all, just another sof player, as a source of inspiration, but his insight and knowledge into leadership and into being influential to those around you, is applicable far outside the lines of SOF, and I know that some of his techniques have helped me in those aspects in my life where a certain leading role is expected of me (such as being founder/singer/guitar player of my band): Take an interest in people, Make and let them enjoy what they do, don't try to force anything out of them, and through all this: support them into supporting you.

Edited by snugg, 10 June 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[SyLt]

i read hokie has healing powers


all leaders do and always have done is saying "3 conf 2 east" and "rush roof", (and if someone sucks at his position, just change him until u get a good player). and of course wanting the best players of the game. thats it.

ur talking about him like he was acting some kind of super team coach from another universe, having his own special training methods, healing abilities and shit

he was just calm because he played very bad himself, which resulted in happiness as long as his team performed

"BUT..BUTT..t:... THE MYSTIC ... PLANTS. HOKIE....." SHUT THEF UCK UPPPPPPP

[SyLt]

i can list 10 leaders better than him

agertz
ghjostbåster
etc

[snugg]

I know it's very easy and tempting to have a cynical approach to our point of view, sylt, but not all leaders are/were like the stereotypical leader you describe: "(3 conf, 2 east)". I'd find it pretty uninteresting to play in a clan like that too. It's nice to feel at least SOME kind of connection with who's leading the team and who the other players in your team are, I think.

SOF is a game with strategy and tactics behind it, not just in the game itself but also in the community outside of the game. In that aspect, it's much like a globally known game/sport like football or cycling. We all love to pretend that we don't take it serious, but why then has the majority been actively playing it and communicating about it for the past X years?

It's only natural that some players and some leaders stand out in those kind of games (like football and like SOF). In football, you had/have great leaders. In this game too, the internal structure is just the same: a set of rules, tactics and strategy, 2 opponents, (usually) 1 winner, and in general, some are better than it than others.

Bearing this in mind, would you publicly reflect your positive impressions about a leader like Mourinho? I think most people (that know a thing about football) wouldn't mind sharing their opinion of how valuable a leader like Mourinho is. I assume you wouldn't see anything unusual in that

How then is it that in essence, doing the exact same thing to another leader from another game that has the exact same internal structure (see above) leads to your disapproval?

[SyLt]

i guess it's personal what you think are good leader attributes

i played with hokie for half a year something, he was just a manipulative lying cunt at the time to 90% of the people. really unpopular guy with so much hating and ignoring people here and there.

i think agertz is a better leader and the members in s35 have better spiritual connection than hokie ever had with his ball licking minions


but oh, we never won a cup (which is probably why you praise him). hell, i bet my left testicle you'd win that cup even harder with a random top10 player instead of hokie. because hokie never had a positive ratio

its bs

Edited by SyLt, 10 June 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[snugg]

haha, ok, i guess you're entitled to your opinion, although it's hard to imagine how you could perceive him as being so unworthy (for the points i raised in my two previous posts).

Anyone else his thoughts/reflections?

PS: I can honestly say though that I really do not give a flying shit about the cup we won. Sure it was nice back then to win it as complete outsiders at the time but not once did it pop up in my mind while I was writing my post. and I must say I'm glad that's not the kind of thing that crossed my mind when thinking back about those times

Edited by snugg, 10 June 2012 - 04:49 PM.

[katana.]

STFU PRIME

[snugg]

thank you for your contribution to the discussion, katana

[SyLt]

I FEEL LIKE BEATING UP SOMEONE

[luminoKo]

I agree with you Snugg, there are differences in leadership.
Hokie was not always friendly, also Sylt is right about that.
But he was a good leader, what you said in the beginning Snugg, that you want to give everything for him makes it a good leader.
It's not only about leading matches Sylt, also the whole ambience around it.
Like arranging wars, communication between your members, the attitude, and recruiting and more details.
So I can understand what Snugg said.
I think it's not good to say what leader is better since we all got another name in mind, but Hokie was a good one for sure.
He was mean sometimes yes, but smart and had feeling for the scene.

[snugg]

hmm, I've already been getting that impression based on how you've been wording your posts

[SyLt]

Pepijn the Master of diplomacy strikes again

"he was mean, yes like sylt says, but smart and had feelings like snugg says" cracked me up here

but whatever, ill let you think he descended from an alien spaceship in the shape of a healing plant, a true miracle with an ability to make the best demo clans ever seen. Talking about plants,, which one are you on snugg?