104 replies to this topic

[doctorfunk]

What you don't seem to get is that it's always nicer to say we are going to fight for Christ against pagans, instead of we are going to enslave this niggas so they can mine gold and emeralds for us. Now reason is resources but motivation you give to people is to fight for Christ against dirty men who's culture holds little value and is an insult Virgin Mary. Leaders really rarely give a fuck for anything else than power and profit. What's so hard to understand about that. Same was for Iraq war. Reason: *insert economical reason(s)* motivation for society: *bring peace to oppressed Iraqis, confiscate weapons of mass destruction*

Same could be said for colonization etc that's why if some fat man in Spain said it's because those dirty Indians didn't accept Christ as master of the universe, I don't really buy it. I can be 95% certain he's thinking about emeralds and gold these Indians will dig out for him, because that's what general pattern throughout the history shows.

[scatman]

What you didn't get balwan, is that ever notice how money/power/greed/racism goes hand in hand with religion in 4 of those 6 cases and there are more we could discuss im sure!

[doctorfunk]

Yea but Inquisition and Crusades are not your typically wars. They are minority not majority. There was shit load of wars between for example greek states who shared the same religion and culture, or countries of mideveal Europe who were constantly at war. And still in most cases you named reason is money and power and religion provides a justification. But if you take away religion people will still war each other, so no religion isn't the reason. Just look at the USSR, they didn't have religion right so it stopped them from wars right?

aND PLZ

the Iraq war isnt mainly because of religion its under another pretext - but its still aimed entirely at muslims...

I just think your observation skills are bad. Yes go hand in hand with Osama saying war in Iraq is aimed at Muslims
I wouldn't be surprised you believed it more than he does. There's a difference between cause and pretext or justification.
And the fact they are muslim wasn't even used as a pretext, it was oppression and weapons of mass destruction.


Anyway do you claim if there was no religion, or religion differences, then majority of wars would be avoided ?

[maniman]

now bring religion up again and you know how i feel about you

Edited by maniman, 27 January 2011 - 11:17 AM.

[doctorfunk]

well money runs the world, people do most of the awful things for money or power if we talk about leaders of the state ^^
religion is minor thing compared to that in 99% of cases, excluding for example trainees at Al-kaida however tbh I'd still
have some doubts to what their leaders truly believe, though brainwashed ones clearly wanna kill from Allah.
I guess besides scat and snugg I still have Niels with me on that!

Besides slavery scat was a stupid example, because people enslaved themselves even if they came from same culture,
like in ancient Greece slavery was common if you for example couldn't pay your debts. And it was like that till some
bishops in Europe figured it's not cool when christian enslaved a christian and sells it to Islamic empire. So in that case
you could see that having common values/religion actually was a good thing since at least they didn't enslave one another.
Which btw was common with early vikings who often raided neighboring tribes and then went by Volga and sold these
people to Muslims in the south. ( I got this from listening to lectures about vikings on mp3 when i go by bus somewhere )
So in most cases religion didn't matter when it came to slavery, and when it mattered it at least assured people from same
cultures were a little softer on each other; at least in that regard, because in other stuff they still murdered each other pretty damn good.

[maniman]

Its really no use going back in time to use as examples etcetera. A war happening today is no different then a war 1000 years ago. Really, there is 0 difference. People are killed and recources are taken over.

History isnt even accurate. What we learn about history most of it is false anyway, western history is all 1 side of the story. You can only look at todays world and see whats up. So yeah scat, pretty cool you wrote all youre history lessons here but really, it doesnt change jack shit.

Edited by maniman, 27 January 2011 - 12:01 PM.

[doctorfunk]

History isnt even accurate. What we learn about history most of it is false anyway, western history is all 1 side of the story. You can only look at todays world and see whats up. So yeah scat, pretty cool you wrote all youre history lessons here but really, it doesnt change jack shit.

explain what you mean by that

[maniman]

I ment that its more like 1 side of the story. Its not accurate. If the nazi's would have won WW2 we would all think jews are evil because we would have been learned to.

[doctorfunk]

Historians take that into account; it's obvious that history is written by winners. Notion that most of history is false is just ignorance tbh.
Like every science not all theories will prove to be true with time, but all are backed up by records and archeology and sometimes literature offers some clues too. If they make up some theories they base it on something you know, and they take into account the obvious stuff.

[maniman]

Historians take that into account; it's obvious that history is written by winners. Notion that most of history is false is just ignorance tbh.
Like every science not all theories will prove to be true with time, but all are backed up by records and archeology and sometimes literature offers some clues too. If they make up some theories they base it on something you know, and they take into account the obvious stuff.

Yeah fair enough. Thats kind of what i ment. Dead end.

[doctorfunk]

perhaps :>

A war happening today is no different then a war 1000 years ago. Really, there is 0 difference. People are killed and recources are taken over.

with this i agree, long time ago i read thoughts of Seneca and i was kind of surprised how human nature stays unchanged throughout the centuries
well at least it was my personal feeling that somehow what he wrote was still actual in many ways

[maniman]

anyway. if you want to find the true motives for a war. you have to look at the representivies of the nation and what they believe in. not the population but the leaders. the population maybe believes in a appollo or jesus. but the leaders sure have political motives. i never heard of a war without (a) leader(s).

its always the politic structure(or the source of power, kings back in the day, tribal council, w/e) causing the war and not the population. now theres another reason for those dumbies who claim religion is the cause for war.

Edited by maniman, 27 January 2011 - 01:23 PM.

[doctorfunk]

True that, but you have to have those idiots from your nation on your side so you use ideology or religion to gain support and provide justification.
Nazi and commies weren't religious but ideology was very strongly induced there to control people, and well Stalin himself was as good communist as I am.

good point mani!

[snugg]

guess well have to agree to disagree, no surprise

[doctorfunk]

idd
it is what it is then
because it's not what it's not

[rake]

the real reason for wars? who knows..
do governments even 'control' the world? there are multi billion dollar companies etc that have great influence on governments through funding etc, are these the real 'rulers' of the world.
in orwell's 1984 the question of the 'commom enemy' is raised; a focal point for all your civilians, something to bind them together and make them work against. this can be seen in the conspiracy, proposing that osama bin laden is dead, killed in bombings several years ago, but 'kept alive' by the western media, to have us, the western world, a focal point to fight against. they use him as a figurehead of 'terrorism', so they can go and achieve economic interests, i.e: oil in iraq.
my opinion

[supreme]

sayin a war is on terrorism/religion.. is just to cover up the fact that they want to control the world.. illuminati will take over slowly.. ull notice

[C-4]

Religion is usually just an excuse for war, "nuclear threats" is another excuse for war.

The main reason for modern wars is one word. Oil. 9/11 gave America enough reasons to systematically invade the middle east and capture oil fields amongst their war against terror.

Seen a quick clip by a russian with his interesting theory;

[NavySeall]

I think, if we had some good socialism lessons on primary school there would be 90 percent less fights, wars, poverty etc.

Since kapitalism is teached to us on schools, we all became individuals who dont give a fuck about other people. For example, how many times on a regular day you think about the people who suffer becuase of poverty in Africa , Asia or anywhere else on the world. Making money on the back of others is not good. Im not a communist. I rather see myself as a lennist marksist socialist.

Fuck illuminati

[NavySeall]

For the people who didnt understand my sentences above ^.

I think individualism is the main reasons for war. People think they can be better if they fight others. I noticed an example of oil is givin. The reason isnt oil. The reason is individualism and oil is just a thing to satisfy the individualist.

Nowadays, we forget that we all are human. If your etnical different or from an other continent. We all are humans. Thats the thing we share. We should look to ways to improve the world with all the habitants, instead of improving a country or an continent etc. We are all one!