Funny that you say that cause 3 out of the 5 players in that lineup werent even in c4 when hokie was still alive (or atleast not during the dbc06). Would have been quite the achievement for them to play in this final lol
and you couldnt be more wrong about the line ''the most talented lineup possible'' if you're refering to our team in the dbc06. We were a HUGE underdog, in the shadows of a multitude of clans (think of: haze, ks, cc etc etc) and surprised basically everybody by getting to the finals, beating haze & ks on our way to it.. 3v had a very easy path to the final (literally the biggest difference between two sides of the bracket in all of the cups ive played
) and because of this, they were the underdogs against the team that beat all of these big favourites. This is however in contrast with what you think happened. We were not some huge superstar team, that would just come in and roll through the tournament because we were that much better. We were a similar team to 3v at the time (although imo a bit better), but just had a more impressive run towards the finals which is why we got hyped.
also the line: teamwork beats skill does indeed apply on this final, as 3v probably was individually worse than our lineup, which by the way, wasn't all that impressive imo (me on my shitty 40 fps computer, skoko, mociema, dio and ?crono?, not sure about the last player
). But 3v had a HUGE advantage on us: they used a voice communication system - ventrilo. We did not use any voice comms untill after this cup (god knows why) and thus it was rather easy to have the better teamwork, cause our teamwork was basically absent at the time. I have to give credit to 3v for absolutely destroying us in the right match though, it was very impressive. However, I do think that if we would have played this match 10 times, c4 would have won 7 times, even without ventrilo, just because the skillgap between us and yoshi,abu and hokie was pretty huge (snugg and murdoc were already pretty good at the time).
I see my story got quite huge, here's a tl;dr: c4 was not as good as u think it was, 3v DID use a voice comm and c4 didnt and (IMO) it was an incident.
this is just my perspective on it, dont shoot me down for it :}
nah I respect your opinion, and you're not completely wrong (we're both partially wrong about the lineup it was you, skoko, navy, dio, richard... someone must still have the screens)
Sure you guys weren't favored over HaZe in the beginning, but you're kidding yourself if you think you weren't the heavy favorites in the finals. Yes c4 (and 3v) were created within that year so they didn't have the reputation HaZe did, but for the final there was a poll on db and 80% voted that c4 would win, every euro outside of 3v was overly confident about how c4 would CRUSH 3v
I also don't understand how you can get manhandled 10-0 (or was it 10-1?) but you still think you had the better team (not just players) and would win the rematch 70% of the time WITHOUT vent. It wasn't some secret strategy to use vent, europeans just used to laugh at us and that idea because "binds are better" because the only purpose everyone else thought it served at the time was to call out enemy positions, and you all wanted to hear footsteps not someone screaming in your ear. Even if you guys had downloaded vent for a rematch, it wouldn't have made the difference. Although it opens the ceiling and allows a whole new level to be reached, vent doesn't translate into immediate teamwork, it would have taken you guys months of using it together before you got your full effect from it. There was no one that ever used it as effectively as hokie, it wasn't 5 players fighting individually then reporting, it was one team thinking together and playing as a cohesive unit. Hokie used to rush to his death a lot, because he understood he was more valuable making a push and sacrificing himself then coaching the rest of the round because we all had better shots but he knew how to play smarter, so when he was speccing he'd see the whole situation and dictate when we should fall back for health reasons, who should hold where, what we should watch for and what we should ignore so we didn't die from one direction because two people were watching the same spot. The most important factor was how much we all respected his advice and accepted without hesitation whatever he told us to do because we trusted him, so he was able to orchestrate perfectly-timed rushes from both sides so even if one player died the other was going to shoot him in the back and gain that position.
A knight can only see the L moves he can make, but a master chess player can see the whole board, and how his opponent would react if he moved any piece to any place. I can't properly explain it cause it's impossible to fully understand it unless you were a part of it. Basically, I completely disagree with your statement that teamwork is overrated in sof2 and "history has proved a mix of the best 5 players can beat the best team"
Edited by executor, 28 April 2015 - 10:05 PM.
