95 replies to this topic

[BariS]

I don't think mods can be made for demo.

[GodOrDevil]

On top of what max said GodOrDevil. You are being subjective imo. 2k3 was mostly based on full ND players experience and requests. You come up with 3rd-crosses and shit like that, and say that the majority wanted this, so you implement it in. Now please just make a poll and let's see what the outcome will be.

I also recommend you (if you are willing to develop a mod for both Real DMG and Nnormal Dmg) to seperate Real Dmg from Normal Dmg, since they are much different then us. Half of them doesn't use FairPlay, let stand talking english properly. They also tend to use mods/skins, and things like 3rdcrosses.

Another recommendation is to involve the demobase community with your development. With this I mean to say, that you could discuss here what full players (ND/RD) really want in a mod/server or w/e it is about.

You made/are making a mod, which is very positive in my eyes, and I (probably also we) would like to encourage you with this. But you brought it like: "Hi guys, I'm making a new mod, and I don't care what you think of it, and I'm putting these features in it.".

When max created the 2k3 RPM many of us full players made suggestions and came up with idea's, which is playing a big part in 2k3 RPM being successful. We'd be willing to help develop other developers with new mods. But I'd recommend you to start checking the 2k3 RPM forum/suggestions section, since many of our (Normal Dmg-community) idea's and suggestions (basically what we want) is posted in there. And together we can help each other creating a new mod that even goes further than 2k3 RPM if that is what your goal is.

If that is not your goal, sorry for making you read this.

First, im not being subjective. I did not come here saying "look at this mod, I dont care what you think ...". I talked to the host sponsoring the mod a few weeks ago and told him I would be short on time so testing would become a problem. I do not have a "team" setup to test it right now so it was decided to allow public testing on fragnet servers so people can give feedback, bug reports, suggestions, etc and if there was a positive outcome we would go from there. That is where this topic came from. Then, I came here yesterday just seeing what was up and I saw the topic daniel posted about the mod and the response based on 1 of the minior features of the mod. The comments I made about not caring what people think is not some ego driven statement. I simply meant that i dont care if people use the mod or not. Im not trying to create the ultimate mod or kill every other mod or anything like that. Its not a competition to me nor do I ever care for it to be such. It was just a side project and if people want to use it, then they can. If not, thats fine too.

As for the damage, it has nothing "directly" to do with the mod. The server admin can select which weapon file they want to run by setting a cvar to that file. ie. \nv_weaponmodfile "nd". Its up to the person running the server. It shouldnt have any impact on the mod or vice versa.

Lastly, people are free to make suggestions. There have been various topics in the past for suggestions, but they were not publicized or posted anywhere players would actually look because it wasnt really intended to ever amount to a released mod.

You can't just randomly put something together and expect us to love it..

I dont expect anyone to love it. I didnt expect anything really. The features in it were not random (for the most part). Not everything it in will fit everyones idea of what should be in a mod. It doesnt reflect what I would want either. Everyone and every server has different ideas or requests of what should or should not be in a mod. I do not agree with a lot of the things people suggest, but that does not mean i will refuse the idea. And just because it doesnt appeal to everyone doesnt not mean I will remove it. I will definantly modify it so that those that wish to use it can and those that wish to never see it will not have to. But I cant accommodate every server or every player because views are totally different in every case just about.

You should think about it, since around 30-40% of active players use Fairplay(at the time of my post there was 191 players using fairplay out of 561 total players -- you can see this @ the top left of Demobase).

The players using FP are your biggest group who are likely to use a new mod, since they are the ones who read forums, engage in communities etc. Most of the other players are public players who probably won't check any forums etc, and probably won't actively try to download & install a mod.

98% of this mod was complete before mousetrap or fairplay came around. Its been sitting on my backup drive basically untouched for about 4-5 years so I didnt create it to support or comply with anything but the vanilla game. I am not familar with what FP allows or blocks anyway but there shouldnt be anything causing problems except of course the infamous 3rd crosshair, which im getting sick of talking about lol. I cannot create a mod with the notion make the developers of FP happy or I will be limiting the mod and anyone that wants to use it. If I lose people in the process, then so be it. But as I stated, there shouldnt be a problem other then the obvious. If another problem arises, then we can deal with it as long as its not something that is a part of the core of the mod.

Edited by GodOrDevil, 15 September 2010 - 01:43 AM.

[bing bang blaow]

Don't worry about the FP part, that's upto shifty to allow/disallow it. ohyeah, of course if the community welcomes it. fairplay was mainly created for 'competitive' players not pubstars

At one point I even thought about bring ROC mod to 1.00, but people I talked to wouldnt accept anything different.

People in 1.03 use/used OSP as competitive mod, not ROC mod; and in 1.00 people need something instead of RPM 2k3(don't know the ver name) 'cause 2k3 forcing people to rent their servers in order to use the mod - so what we need rather is mix of osp/rpm with bugs fixed.
We don't need some big shiney ass features, though it would be nice for public play but it should not be the main purpose of the mod if you want people to use it. For instance, I do not want to see people abusing map editor during scrim. just looking at the features you mentioned in the first post -

nVmod Main Features:
9 additional game types - including RUSH from BC2, DOM & Sab from COD4, as well as DEM from the updated versions of SOF2
Ingame map editor
Ingame hud creator
Ingame scoreboard creator
Extensive admin system
Shoot able items (grenades, packs, weapons, etc)
New weapons (gas grenade + airstrike grenade)
Killing spree reward system
Next Map voting
Player stats and awards
And a few good surprises in development!

the bolded parts - well different gametypes is no biggy, upto people to play or not to play them. map editor - already something that can and WILL be abused by people during scrims, easy fix would be disabling it with 'comp mode' though(something like rpm has). New weapons are just not needed, but people can disable them by themselves serverside so no biggy either..but as for killing spree reward system, this is just plain stupid for scrims. there's a reason why cod4 mods for comp. play disable perks and different killing spree rewards etc.
my 2 cents.


// edit
PS. I don't know if that can be made, but one big step forward would be fixing the goddamn demo recording function. huge flaw in 1.00 imo..I mean, even the demo version does it correctly whereas 1.00 can't playback your POV demos...


//// edit
this is just my point of view about this mod and what I expect from it. I almost never play public, but if your mod is solely directed to pubbers, then forget what I said. however, you posted it here, in demobase for a reason...anyone who uses these forums are here for one and only one reason - this is where any competitive play thats left in sof2 happens..cups, anticheat..you name it.

Edited by rocket, 15 September 2010 - 03:56 AM.

[GodOrDevil]

Im starting to think some of you guys are just fucking with me because these cannot be serious responses. The map editor being used during gameplay? Seriously?!?!?!

there's a reason why cod4 mods for comp. play disable perks and different killing spree rewards etc

You should think about this for awhile. Think really, really hard and - maybe, just maybe - you will find the answer.

Also, if someone would post the IP's of these competition servers I would love to check their settings out to see whats happening. I assume since they are all hosted by 2k3 they must be european and as luck would have it Im unable to see any on the server list due to ping I suppose.

Edited by GodOrDevil, 15 September 2010 - 06:43 AM.

[Foxdie]

I dont see why you think its ridiculous the map editor could and probably would be abused people could add secret invisible shit to run on to get to say patio - heli or w.e and where are you from anyway you said you cant access competitive servers cause of your ping so why are you acting as if you know anything about what competitive players want or will do with your mod

and IF you can try to port this over to demo

//and really any1 who hasnt clicked the link in the first post should this mod does look crazy and has some nice features but really for this mod to work out its gotta have some way to keep people from abusing it in wars/scrims

Edited by Foxdie, 15 September 2010 - 07:54 AM.

[Mr. Postman]

I dont see why you think its ridiculous the map editor could and probably would be abused people could add secret invisible shit to run on to get to say patio - heli or w.e and where are you from anyway you said you cant access competitive servers cause of your ping so why are you acting as if you know anything about what competitive players want or will do with your mod

You can (alternatively) edit maps using .ENT files, and people who have access to these probably are the only ones with RCON. The server needs to be set into a 'nv_mapedit' state (if my memory serves me correctly) and the map needs to be restarted. So I think little abuse can come from it.

and IF you can try to port this over to demo

I think the good thing about Demo is that you all play 'modless' anyway. And it would be a hell of a job to accomplish in the first place. Let's not forget Demo was merely a Test version for the technology of SoF2 (GHOUL2 and such).

Edited by Mr. Postman, 15 September 2010 - 08:47 AM.

[GodOrDevil]

I dont see why you think its ridiculous the map editor could and probably would be abused people could add secret invisible shit to run on to get to say patio - heli or w.e

For the most part Postman answered all this, but to make things clear ill explain the mapeditor and other details.

The map editor is a way of setting up the ENT files in game and saving them. If you dont trust a server running ent files, then dont play there and find another server. You shouldnt have to worry about that in a competition setting since competitions are played on a unbiased third party server anyway. Unless there are bets being placed lol.

For the map editor to be enabled and usable you need the following:
1. Rcon to the server
2. Run the map with either a.) cheats enabled via the command path OR b.) start the map in development mode (devmap)
3. The user must have S-Admin to edit the maps
4. The cvar must be set and in the event that it is changed all players will be notified via console messages.

If anyone joins the game while a map is being edited they will know. It will show the game having cheats enabled and upon entering the server they will not be able to shoot, change weapons, or pickup items. The will see colored lines outlining items, models, and bsps. They will see players floating around the map. They will see objects being moved all around the map. So im pretty sure it will be obvious and if a player still thinks they are in a ladder match after all that, then they probably shouldnt have access to a computer.

Also, there is - for whatever reason - confusion about what can be turned on or off. Almost all features of the mod can be enabled or disabled via cvars:
That means the mapeditor, killing spree rewards, sounds, 3rd/1st person, database connections, new weapons, weapon damages, shootable items, auto messages, anti-camp, anti-spawn killing, admins, admin commands, comp/public/training modes, health gains, voting, m4 scopes, random map selector, end of game voting, forced weapons/goggles/armor, m203s, auto even teams, pickups, auto swap teams, auto extend time, auto chat responses, all the default settings and probably more that I forgot. If you dont want something, disable it! There is no reason a mod can not be both a public mod and a competition mod. Why that is so hard to understand is beyond me. Im relieved that a few people do seem to understand that; but at the same time, disappointed that most still cant grasp it. I just hope they are fanboys or trolls instead of the ones that keep being referred to as "competitive players" because if that is indeed the case then we might have a big problem.

and where are you from anyway you said you cant access competitive servers cause of your ping so why are you acting as if you know anything about what competitive players want or will do with your mod

I was simply asking for the IP. I am in the US, but I am not seeing any competition servers or any servers that even indicate they are setup for competitions. I have no trouble seeing other European servers, including the NV test server, which is why I stated it could be a ping issue since servers are dropped from the query if the ping is too high. Perhaps the servers are shut down if something isnt scheduled? My list shows 113 servers w/249 players. Going through the server list there are only 4 servers contain actual players which make up about 35-40 of the 249 players. The rest are either empty or full of AI bots. So it apears I will need an IP to try to connect to at least one of these servers so I can see whats to be expected from a proper competition mod.

Btw, Its easy to know what true competitive players want. Fairness, simplicity, and a set of tools to manage a game without effecting how its played. The problem is competitors generally seem to know the game they play frontwards and backwards. They also tend to have a positive demeanor when approached with new ideas. Just because something is listed as an option in a mod doesnt mean its required or enforced.

Ok, thats it for the long posts from me. If you guys want to collaborate and come up with the "ultimate list" of whats expected from a competition mod, then perhaps we can get somewhere instead of yelling about how something sucks or wont work.

[bing bang blaow]

lol@u

I could've NEVER known that you have to enable cheats etc to use the mapeditor. Do not blame me for that, im not the modder, I am just a gamer. besides you only let us download client files so I could've never tested it on my own server. when I tested the mod I could just see map editor in options and I could see buttons to add extraction points and whatsoever and my first idea was that if you can do it during match, it will be abused.


and I really dont understand what were u tryin to say when u quoted the cod4 part from my post.

Edited by rocket, 15 September 2010 - 10:35 AM.

[GodOrDevil]

Well, in away you are correct because the documentation you have access to has no mention of needing cheats enabled to use the map editor. But to me (and again this is just me thinking here) it seems that being able to edit a map durring an actual game would be considered while creating it and therefore its only common sense that such a think would be blocked or disabled in some way. But I could be totally wrong.

and I really dont understand what were u tryin to say when u quoted the cod4 part from my post.

the answer lies within the remark itself.

but as for killing spree reward system, this is just plain stupid for scrims. there's a reason why cod4 SOF2 mods for comp. play disable perks and different killing spree rewards etc.

Most of the things you suggest you pretty much answer yourself which is what Im getting at. You seem innocent enough though, so its ok. lol

Edited by GodOrDevil, 15 September 2010 - 11:53 AM.

[Daniel Fragnet]

Carpe Diem

Edited by Daniel|Fragnet, 15 September 2010 - 12:11 PM.

[BariS]

Sorry for being a whiner here, but this is the mentality that will change the story.

Btw, Its easy to know what true competitive players want. Fairness, simplicity, and a set of tools to manage a game without effecting how its played. The problem is competitors generally seem to know the game they play frontwards and backwards. They also tend to have a positive demeanor when approached with new ideas. Just because something is listed as an option in a mod doesnt mean its required or enforced.

Ok, thats it for the long posts from me. If you guys want to collaborate and come up with the "ultimate list" of whats expected from a competition mod, then perhaps we can get somewhere instead of yelling about how something sucks or wont work.

Don't get me wrong, but since the start I've had the feeling (maybe caused by the * comments and criticism of us) that you have shit on us, instead of communication in a friendly and open way (also pointed to us). But I still disagree withthe fact that you say I don't care about who uses it etc etc.. since you create it to be used. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the purpose of this mod is being used right?

So in one or another way, we would like to have a mod that can be used with any server no matter where it has been rented from. And you are being kind enough to create a mod that complies to this requirement. At least this is what I make up of this story.

So a fresh start from this point would be nice.

Anyway at least I'm open for giving a hand with suggestions and shit like that, if needed.

[GodOrDevil]

Don't get me wrong, but since the start I've had the feeling (maybe caused by the * comments and criticism of us) that you have shit on us, instead of communication in a friendly and open way (also pointed to us).

Go back and read through the topic and some of the comments before I even posted. Aside from the first few supportive replys, the rest were mostly criticism and trash talk. Im not here to argue with anyone, but I also will not sit by idled if the situation arises. What I say might come off as rude or insensitive or whatever else sometimes, but more then likely its just how I weed out those that try to bring negativity to the situation. Ive been around this game for far too long and dealt with people complaining about every little thing. Mostly attention whores and for whatever reason they assume they are owed something or expect everything to be handed to them like a child. Well, thats just not how I do things.

But I still disagree withthe fact that you say I don't care about who uses it etc etc.. since you create it to be used. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the purpose of this mod is being used right?

Disagree all you want. If the purpose was to get the mod being used I would have done so 4 years ago. I do not play the game anymore, I do not profit from it, I do not get any thing from it. Not even a cozzy little feeling inside if someone uses it. A few people Ive known for awhile showed interest in it, so I decided that maybe others would too. Clearly that is not the case. But no harm, no foul. I did not make the post, nor did I ask for it to be made. Daniel made it in hopes that it would spark interest and breath some life back into this game before it dies out completely. You are indeed wrong in thinking that I have an emotional interest in the mod. If it was used and people like it then that would be a bonus. Otherwise its the same as if it was still hidden way in a folder or sitting in the recycling bin. So with that being said consider yourself corrected because it was not created to be used by anything other then my development server.

So in one or another way, we would like to have a mod that can be used with any server no matter where it has been rented from. And you are being kind enough to create a mod that complies to this requirement. At least this is what I make up of this story.

So a fresh start from this point would be nice.

Anyway at least I'm open for giving a hand with suggestions and shit like that, if needed.

Ive tried to get a list of what you guys as a community want. I have yet to get an answer as to what that is. Ive asked a few times what is it that is special about the 2k3 mod or how it differs from the other RPMs. So far all I hear is crickets.
My overall suggestion would be to make a list of what is needed for a good competiton mod, built it using RPM as a base so its done quickly and on something that works and everyone seems to love. Then set it up so that everyone that wants it has access to it without server restrictions.
That shouldnt take more then a week or two to have something solid. Unless of course negativity shows its ugly head.

[XILLAX]

basically, the 2k3 rpm mod has a command /3rd and /1st, because FP blocks hash commands. FP allows thirdperson to be set by mods/server(in memory) -- shifty was going to make a command for 3rd but he's lazy and hasn't done it yet.

+ it has quick commands like typing !et instead of /adm eventeams.

+ location, damage & weapon of your team mates show at the scoreboard

+ h&s gametype.

that's the main features of the mod imo, others can post more stuff which they like from it i guess

[Zippa]

instead of being a trolls, give suggestions about the mod, like xillax did!
ohh yeah, as the modder said before, EVERYTHING can be DISABLED/ENABLED, so if u wanna play vanilla with this mod u can!

[Foxdie]

ye and you cant change between 3rd and first during the round only at the start

[BladHark]

ye and you cant change between 3rd and first during the round only at the start

thats good u nab, wouldnt like everybody toggling between first n third the whole war

[Foxdie]

thats good u nab, wouldnt like everybody toggling between first n third the whole war

NOOB IM SAYING ITS GOOD



OH and if your gonna add in sounds like in rpm make it so we can TOGGLE IT OFF PLEASE


//edit i can see a problem with the custom creation stuff since fp will have to allow each 1 for it 2 work

Edited by Foxdie, 15 September 2010 - 06:15 PM.

[BariS]

Not to forget the Competition mode command. Usable by S-admins. Usage by typing !cm

What happens when competition mode is enabled and you restart the map:

- Enables default settings ( scorelimit, timelimit ... etc)
- Locks specs (spectators can get invited)
- Swaps teams automatically after a little timeinterval (for SS) when the scorelimit is hit (in inf)
- Shows the score after every round
- disables the @ sounds
- Shows Awards after the end of 2nd round

And prolly some more but can't think of all right now.

Another nice feature is the fact that you can spec 1sters only in 1st and 3rders only in 3rd.

If you would like to see the mod for yourself:

CST server runs 2k3 RPM. An admin is needed to show the competition mode though, anyway here is the ip:

Status: ONLINE
Name: cstgaming.net
IP: 193.138.206.224:20100
Gametype: inf
Mapname: mp_shop
Slots: 20
Rented from: 2k3servers.com
Live link: http://2k3servers.co... ... ?sh_srv=45

[bing bang blaow]

lololol since u implemented dem from gold i got a question; do you have some decent mappers?

i would love to play some 1.6 maps in sof2 in dem gametypeeeee i.e nuke :0010101001

[HighNesZ]

lololol since u implemented dem from gold i got a question; do you have some decent mappers?

i would love to play some 1.6 maps in sof2 in dem gametypeeeee i.e nuke :0010101001

More maps in dem !!!!