442 replies to this topic

[duman]

its human nature to believe in something, men cant lead men

[malydok]

its human nature to believe in something, men cant lead men

wait, what?
about the first part tho, ofc everyone has beliefs but they dont necessairily have to be of divine nature

[duman]

wait, what?
about the first part tho, ofc everyone has beliefs but they dont necessairily have to be of divine nature

even atheists believe in something beyond their comprehension

[doctorfunk]

All i said was, there is a correlation between lower intelligence and higher belief in religion.

And I said intelligence is not only measure of evaluating someones intellectual worth
May I ask what do you think it proves?

There is a negative correlation between religious beliefs and intelligence. Just that on its own is already infinitely, endlessly more valid than believing in god(s).

What do you exactly mean by that?

2. I never said that they're wrong, in fact, i said that was their only argument: You cant prove theyre wrong. You cant prove that god doesnt exist.

In this topic there were 3 people who declared they believe in God and none of them used it as their an argument,
also none of them made statements which offended atheists contrary to;

don't believe in god, never have and never will, it's just a illusion, it's nothing. it's for weak people

dont know what the current topic is but all those who blindly believe in a god whether its in the context of christianity or islam or judaism, like a little kid that believes in santa, fuck off

religion is the cause for lots of violence, arrogance regarding race while when you stop and think it's pathetic. people just want to be able to say "this happened because god wanted it to happen" well say that if it makes you feel better, it just happened because it did, life can suck, get over it and stop being weak.

Also I didn't see anyone on demobase mix up religious believes with science and you keep saying on how 'retards keep on doing that'

Neither Asrael, Rocket or me declared religious but we didn't come up with generalizations like that, neither did those declared believers so
I'm just saying you could show more respect and understanding to people in general.
Just because some people believe in God doesn't make them lesser intellectually(unless you prove otherwise) and even if you do prove it then:
- you still have no right calling them retards, useless, inferiors or slaves; because it's not how we roll on demobase and in life most of the time, you don't call people Untermensch just because you are a world class sprinter with iq of 160 and they are not.

@Foxdie, I didn't say it is

[asrael]

even atheists believe in something beyond their comprehension

That is a completely different thing though

[doctorfunk]

are there any atheists that believe in supernatural ?

[VARIMR]

nope believing in higher beings is a part of human nature
thing you talk about is religion

Anyway till 16th century or so, priests/shamans/etc constituted 99% of literate people and
came up with majority of inventions propelling our kind from stone age to early modern era so
after all religion is what helped early societies to organize. Now religion is that understanding
is obsolete but without it organized societies would have much harder time setting up. Just
think of the fact from all the world wonders only the Alexandrias lighthouse didn't serve religious purpose.

90 % of every wars have began because of religions. 10 % goes for oil and other stuff.

end of your "helping socities".

[doctorfunk]

While wars are often justified by religion and ideology or sprung by some incidents true reasons are power, money and resources in vast MAJORITY of cases.
I find it surprising(and little bit naive) that people claim otherwise, but okay give me some proof(examples) of this 90% theory.

[VARIMR]

ok fast what I remember.

Every fucking crusade to the holy lands christians against muslims.

WW1&WW2.

soviet 10 year afganistan campaing. (they werent fans of muslims)

bosnia muslim genecides.

africa muslim genecides (tut muslims fight hut muslims, other muslims think other muslims have to vanish..)

iraq & iran 10 year war (I think it was 10 year..) shia muslims hate the other muslims & kurds, or other way lol

israel fighting egypt & jordania for just being jews

dont remember this fast more, maybe later.

[doctorfunk]

soviet 10 year Afghanistan campaign. (they werent fans of muslims)

Neither were Americans but still they equipped and trained Talibs to fight Russians.
Cold war wars were both testing fields for weaponry and relief of tension between USA and USSR
similarly USSR donated weapons, guns and money to Vietcong. Nothing to do with religion at all.

WW1&WW2.

before WWI world was just dying to engage in a war, too many imperial powers too many conflicts of interests.
If you look at the sides of the conflict you will see; on one side;
British (protestants), France (Catholics), Russians(Eastern Catholics) vs teamed up;
Turks (muslims), Germans(protestants), Austrians+Hungary(Catholics)
I guess religious differences were of little importance forming this alliances,
it's a clash of superpowers mostly German and British.

WW2 is also FAR from being religious war. Hitler picked Jews to be his enemies not because of their religion
but because of their race. And Hitler was smart not a loony he perfectly knew people have it in their nature(having enemy to hate)- just like in Orwells 1984. Still nobody would care if Hitler didn't invade whole europe, he couldn't care less about religion he wanted to conquest the Europe. I don't know how much Hitler believe what he preached since he had little problems forging alliances with for example Japanese or Arabs. But I guess he had to believe it to at least some extent.

I could go on and on about those examples you named, even crusades were not simply religious wars and
in many ways resembled conflict between Greeks states and Persia, more of a clash of cultures purely religious wars. In the
end they turned into regular wars anyway with for example Christian Constantinople being sacked by crusaders. Same
with Northern crusades; Teutonic Knights after being summoned by Polish prince in the end annexed Pomerania
and ended up in full scale war with Christian Poland. After all most important thing is money and power.
They are ethnic conflicts too, but they are deeper than just religion differences. And they are very often just used as a tool
by leaders who really don't care about ethnicity or religion or anything else, it's just those bottom feeders that believe this stuff.

Just look at USSR did removing religion stopped them from violence and world conquest plans?
Did it change anything?

[VARIMR]

it wasnt some weapon test war. whole war lasted 10 years and eated all soviets money, they were muslims who didnt negotiate, so they had to be conquered.

WW1 started in first place from jugoslavia&austria. etnic reasons, if I remember correctly, austria atacked first counting germanys emperor support, misunderstood and germany got pulled in a war lol.

WW2. please..

crusades, wholy lands, kill the unbelievers, christians are chosen blaa blaa.. crusading armies were controlled by popes and priest lords etc.

and the bosnia & africa and middle east muslim wars & genecides you cant say anything, they are just most insane things, muslims fighting "other type" of muslims.

for me, religions are bad. I dont want write more

exept buddhas are cool.

they chill.

edit. sunni muslims (atleast in finnish)! I remember the word now, iraq shia muslims versus iran sunni muslims & kurds. or other way lol.

Edited by VARIMR, 07 January 2011 - 12:56 PM.

[doctorfunk]

Genocides in Africa are often Tribe wars, regardless what religion they believe in, you see people always find pretext to kill each other.
Religion is like a AK-47 neither good or bad, just a tool. In fact I believe throughout the ages rules/religion kept people from eating
each other*. Sad truth is people can be murderous basters and have to be kept in check. All kinds of rules/religion provide that, in early stage
of civilizations these rules were easily explained by because Gods said so, so it did help containing people at least inside their
communities. I think religion served a good rule most of the time providing framework of laws for early communities so they could function normally. It would be comfortable to say most bad things come from religion but most bad things come from human nature, it's sad but it's true.



* I admit, Dark Knight reference

[Richard]

I personaly think people that have some form of religion because they are perhaps afraid of the unknown or it gives them something to hold on to threwout their lifes. Doesn't mean they are weak or slaves, a person might gain strenght from his believes because it might take away fear. Besides if someone believes religion gives him or her strenght, whats the harm in that?

It's time to accept we don't all believe in the same theories and have our own reasons for that. Religion is personal, one shouldn't be forced to follow the rules of a religion. If you'd hold on to such 'rules', religion itself would not be that much of a 'problem' in this world.

Personaly I don't believe in the supernatural, I think everything follows the physical laws of nature and that what we can't explain is something we don't understand right now or might never understand. Even tho I believe in science and natural laws, I have a hard time imagining how we humans are so aware.

[VARIMR]

what believers say miracles are gods work, we atheists know its MAGIC

[asrael]

I'd love to see you back up your statistics Ari.

[maniman]

We did not even discover 000,1% of what is so how can you completly deny a God?
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes.

[doctorfunk]

We did not even discover 000,1% of what is so how can you completely deny a God?

I think your approach is wrong as well and I think Active was right saying this;
It was in context of another post but it was of similar substance to this one

I mean , I think you take sciences discovers like they more tend to prove a god exist . But in my mind it doesn't tend to prove anything, neither it exist, neither it doesn't.

[maniman]

The spirit is in the atmosphere, what we represent as a planet is our physical.

Just food for thought yo

[snugg]

doctor, its pretty simple.

1. Solid proof exists that people with religious beliefs have lower intelligence (measured by globally standardised IQ tests). Believe it or not.

2. Ofcourse I have a right to refer to those people as retards, even if it is a generalisation. Its my personal right, just as it is their personal right to believe in some magic irrational thing like God. Only difference is my personal view is based on solid objective evidence.

[maniman]

2. Ofcourse I have a right to refer to those people as retards, even if it is a generalisation. Its my personal right, just as it is their personal right to believe in some magic irrational thing like God. Only difference is my personal view is based on solid objective evidence.

Then can we call you a retard because you look like one? We have solid evidence because you look like a mongol. My personal view is based on how we as humanity give the image away of what beauty is.